Ask Jiro presents an assortment of kobold scribes and sages to clarify Tales of the Valiant RPG rules and confirm errata sleuthed out by the ToV community!
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This month’s queries are about what to do when talents and class features overlap, and the fine points of stealth and surprise.
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When Talents and Class Features Overlap
Sometimes talents and class features provide the same or similar benefits. In these situations, the benefits don’t “stack” and are not additive. Some talents are designed to make something that is commonly available to one class a little more available to other classes. For example, barbarians and Weapon Master fighters naturally (through class progression) gain the ability to score a critical hit on a d20 roll of 19 or 20. If you’re not a barbarian or fighter, you can still pick up this ability with the Critical Training talent, plus a little extra.
While the Critical Training talent’s little extra could be useful to those barbarians and fighters, its aspect related to expanding which numbers you must roll to score a critical hit isn’t additive with the barbarian’s Brutal Critical or the Weapon Master’s Deadly Flourish. If such characters take the Critical Training talent, they don’t suddenly gain the ability to score a critical hit on a roll of 18, 19, or 20.
Instead, Critical Training opens up the chance for other types of characters with access to Martial talents to increase their chances to score critical hits. Narratively, this shows that something barbarians and Weapon Master fighters naturally learn how to do is something others must put extra effort into training.
New GM asks:
How does stealth work on monsters now? It’s not a contested roll. How does stealth work with surprising a monster or if a monster is hiding and surprises the PCs?
ANSWER!
Let’s break this down before we build it back up.
Stealth Value
Each monster stat block includes a Stealth Value, which serves as the DC for player characters attempting to detect the creature, typically via a WIS (Perception) check or with the PC’s passive Perception score. A monster’s Stealth Value is calculated using the monster’s DEX, and some monsters are more proficient at hiding than others (see Stealth in Chapter 2 of Monster Vault for more details).
Surprised Condition
One change from the SRD is that “surprised” is now a condition. A surprised creature can’t move or take an action on its first turn of combat, and it can’t take a reaction until after its first turn ends (see Player’s Guide).
Hiding and Hidden Attackers
A creature can actively hide from others (see Player’s Guide, page 210). If it makes an attack roll against a creature that doesn’t detect it, it has advantage on the attack roll (see Player’s Guide, page 232).
Determining Surprise
When a combat encounter begins, but before initiative is rolled, the GM determines whether any participants might be surprised or gain the surprised condition. If no participants are trying to be stealthy, everyone notices each other and no one is surprised.
Otherwise, the GM compares the DEX (Stealth) checks (or Stealth Values) of any creatures actively hiding at the start of combat with the passive Perception score (for PCs) or Perception Value (for NPCs or monsters) of creatures on the opposing side. The loser of that comparison is surprised. Individual members of a group can be surprised even if other members aren’t.
Surprised Versus Hidden
The surprised condition applies to a creature completely unaware of danger, typically by failing to notice a hidden enemy prior to a combat encounter starting. It doesn’t apply to a creature actively engaged in combat that is unaware of another creature within that encounter. Here are some example scenarios:
Scenario 1
The PCs are in an argument with some gruff sailors in a tavern. One sailor smashes a bottle on a table, waving it at a PC and starting a combat encounter. Though it is narratively surprising that a heated argument suddenly grew violent, no one was trying to hide, and everyone is aware of each other. There is no surprised condition in this scenario. If the party’s rogue was hiding in the tavern’s rafters at the time, the rogue is a hidden attacker and has advantage on the first attack roll it makes against the sailor.
Scenario 2
Here’s a complicated one. A party consisting of a fighter, a ranger, a rogue, and a wizard is exploring a dungeon. The party enters a room that contains a treasure chest and an ettercap hidden on the ceiling. The ranger and rogue are hiding and exploring the sides of the room, while the fighter and wizard boldly walk into the center of the room toward the chest.
The GM looks at the ettercap’s entry in the Monster Vault and sees that the ettercap has a Perception Value of 13 and a Stealth Value of 13.
The ranger and rogue rolled 14 and 16 respectively on their DEX (Stealth) checks! Both exceed the ettercap’s Perception Value, so the ettercap doesn’t detect either of them. The ranger and rogue rolled 15 and 11 on their WIS (Perception) checks as they actively scout the room, which means the ranger detects the ettercap but the rogue doesn’t.
Meanwhile, the fighter and wizard are not actively looking around. They’re focused on the chest. The GM uses their pass Perception scores, which are 10 and 12. Neither meets or exceeds the ettercap’s Stealth Value of 13, so neither detects the hidden ettercap. They’re not hiding or trying to be sneaky, so the ettercap definitely sees them.
The ettercap then initiates combat by leaping down onto the wizard. The ettercap was hidden from the wizard, and therefore has advantage on its first attack roll for being a hidden attacker. (It doesn’t have advantage on its other attack rolls, because the wizard is very aware of the ettercap’s presence after that first attack!)
The fighter, rogue, and wizard did not notice the ettercap, so each of them has the surprised condition. The ranger isn’t surprised and is still hidden from the ettercap.
Now the group rolls initiative. The fighter, rogue, and wizard can’t act in their first round of combat, but the ettercap and the ranger can. Even though the ettercap doesn’t know the ranger is there, it doesn’t have the surprised condition. However, the ranger has advantage on its first attack roll against the ettercap because it’s a hidden attacker. After that first round ends, the surprised condition ends, and the combat encounter continues as normal.
If the ranger had shouted about the ettercap before the ettercap leapt down on the wizard, the ettercap would still have advantage on its first attack roll against the wizard because it was a hidden attacker. But in that case, none of the creatures in that combat encounter would have the surprised condition, because everyone knew there was danger. The ranger would no longer be hidden from the ettercap, but the rogue would still be hidden.